Fish Keeping Forum: water problems

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peapod115
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Topic: water problems
Posted: 30 May 2009 at 10:26pm

Hi any help please.

I have a 180 litre tank and its about 1 month old. i check my water everyother day but i have very low ammonia high Ph and the Nitrate and Nitrite levels are through the roof.

I have performed 50 litre water changes 3 times but levels still high.

i have now started to loose fish (6 cardinals and 2 clown loaches)

the other fish seem ok (2 cardinals 1 red tail black shark 2 ballon mollys 2platies 1 leopard 1siameze fighting fish and 4 haliquins).

how can i get a better ballance any help please

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sjbquattro
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Posted: 30 May 2009 at 10:43pm

Hi, welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about your problems.

I think we need to get a bit more detail on your aquarium setup, but firstly can you tell us what sort of test kit you are using to get the test results?

Assuming the results are accurate and it's a decent liquid type test kit (API etc) then if you have ANY sort of Nitrite or Ammonia reading you DO have a pretty serious problem. It either means you are overfeeding and/or your filter is not mature enough yet to deal with the bioload/waste. You do have quite a few fish for a 180l, so you would need a good size filter to deal with the waste from those fish.

We can look at the detail more once the initial problem is sorted out.

WHAT YOU NEED TO DO RIGHT NOW....

You need to do a 50% water change and keep doing this daily until the ammonia Reading and Nitrite is ZERO. This will dilute the toxins in the water. Make sure you treat the new water with dechlorinater as well.

Can you also tell me what sort of filter you are using?

Edited by sjbquattro - 30 May 2009 at 10:47pm

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Posted: 31 May 2009 at 10:27am

Thanks for your repsonce the tank set up is as below

Fluval vicenza 180 tank

Fluval 205 filter

I have fake plants and 3 fairly large fake logs for fish to have cover.

1 large stone formation with an air brick for bubbles.

I set up the tank and added Nutrafin + and Cycle as instructed and waited 10 days before adding any fish.

Then added 7 fish. 1x rtbs 2 x platies 1x leopard 3x cardinals.

All seemed well for 2 weeks water ok fish happy.

Then added 4x cardinals 2x ballon mollys 2 clown loach 4 harlequins 1 fighting fish.

within 3 days 5x cardinals dead 3 days later clown loaches dead.

Between the cardinals loss i did a 1/4 water change and the same after the loaches loss.

Water resultes from a Nutrafin Mini master test kit.

Ammonia 0 or as near can be

Ph 8 ish

Nitrite No2 3.3mg/l

Nitrate No3 110mg/l

I also tested my tap water for nitrates and nitites and that was nearly zero.

Feeding times and amounts.

Am pinch of Nutrafin flakes

Pm pinch of Nutrafin falkes and 1 Nutrafin tablet for bottom feeders.

Filter makeup.

Has 2 carbon layers and 2 ceramic type layers.

Lighting comes on from 5pm till 10pm on auto and there have been no power supply issues so filter has been on all the time

Thanks for your time and any advice

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sjbquattro
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Posted: 31 May 2009 at 5:17pm

Hi again, good detail there.

I would say that although the tank is possibly capable of handing that many fish, you have added too many too soon and it is very likely that the Fluval 205 could not cope with that amount of fish and waste. On that size tank with that many fish I would personally be running a 305 or even a 405 to be honest. If I am 100% honest I would say it is too many fish for that size tank anyway and stress/overcrowding would be adding to the problems, hence why your problems started when you added the extra fish.

Your feeding regime seems fine to me, but you just have too many fish in th for that size filter and tank.

I would personally remove the carbon media as that is only required to remove medications or clarify problem water. I would switch it for more biological media to boost the waste breakdown powers of the filter.

I would be suprised if your tap water is showing zero Nitrates... might be worth testing that again as most tap water will have Nitrates in.

I would carry on with 50% daily water changes until your Nitrite levels are zero as Nitrite is highly toxic to fish.

Edited by sjbquattro - 31 May 2009 at 5:20pm

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Posted: 31 May 2009 at 5:40pm

Sorry, I should probably add that, taking in account the fish loses you have had, you probably DO have the right sort of quantity fish in there for now.

The bio load will have reduced now due to the unfortunate loses, so keep on with the water changes, beef up the bio media in the filter and hopefully things will settle down in the next few days.

If you want to add more fish, wait for a good few weeks and consider adding another filter to run alongside the Fluval 205 to keep up with the bioload.

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manutius
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Posted: 01 June 2009 at 4:22pm

hey there welcome to the forum and sorry for your losses. I think SJB has covered it, definitely too many fish too soon so your filter was unable to cope. The number of bacteria in a filter directly relate to the bioload on the tank so when you add anything living new it affects the balance and the tank goes through a mini cycle, rise in amonia then to nitrite and then nitrate. It sems this is the case for you and that your tank is partway through recovering from this. Do as SJB says and change 50% water now and once levels are good maintain a 25% weekly water change regime. When you choose to add fish its best to add a few inches of fish at a time and reduce the feeding for a few days to a week to allow the tfilter to cope.

hope that makes sense and good luck

15000+ posts and hardly any sense made or spellings correct

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SiameseFighter
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Posted: 01 June 2009 at 7:40pm

hi there and welcome to the forum. All aspects have been covered and i hope that you get it sorted soon. I have a 180l tank and i remember havingg to sit and watch a tank of water cycle itself and the slowly i added my fish, 3 at a time over a period of 4 mths. It was worth every minute i spent watching and waiting. Good luck.

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Posted: 01 June 2009 at 8:22pm

Welcome to the forum Peapod. SJB and manu have, I think, covered your problem, to much too soon. Don't give up, just take your time. I'd avoid Clown loaches in future. They have the possibilty of growing to around 10" each and prefer to be kept in large shoals of 15+. If you're determined to have these, think tropical pond or converting the local swimming pool!

Jim B

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Posted: 01 June 2009 at 8:30pm

Very good point Jim about the loaches, many people have them in small groups, myself included but I would rather see them in their larger social groups like in the wild

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Posted: 02 June 2009 at 8:39pm

Thanks Guys, i am doing as you have instructed and hope in time all will be well,i will persist and will let you know how i get on.Good advice about the clown's and may not get anymore cos ive noticed they do get HUGE.anyway of to do a water change now.

Thanks again

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Posted: 02 June 2009 at 9:04pm

Keep us up to date with how it's going.

Jim B

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Posted: 03 June 2009 at 6:42am

excellent peapod as jim says keep us in the loop

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Posted: 13 June 2009 at 1:35pm

Hi Guys

Just to update you on water probs, done as you said and quality now as it should be and fish all fine and happy.

Many thanks

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Posted: 15 June 2009 at 12:49pm

hoorah hoorah

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peapod115 Just Browsing AquaTrax User: no Joined: 30 May 2009 Last Active: 16 September 2009 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6 Articles: 0 Member Rating: 1	Topic: water problems Posted: 30 May 2009 at 10:26pm
	Hi any help please. I have a 180 litre tank and its about 1 month old. i check my water everyother day but i have very low ammonia high Ph and the Nitrate and Nitrite levels are through the roof. I have performed 50 litre water changes 3 times but levels still high. i have now started to loose fish (6 cardinals and 2 clown loaches) the other fish seem ok (2 cardinals 1 red tail black shark 2 ballon mollys 2platies 1 leopard 1siameze fighting fish and 4 haliquins). how can i get a better ballance any help please

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sjbquattro Admin Group AquaTrax User: YES View My Setup Joined: 20 October 2006 Last Active: Today Posts: 4235 Articles: 6 Member Rating: 287	Posted: 30 May 2009 at 10:43pm
	Hi, welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about your problems. I think we need to get a bit more detail on your aquarium setup, but firstly can you tell us what sort of test kit you are using to get the test results? Assuming the results are accurate and it's a decent liquid type test kit (API etc) then if you have ANY sort of Nitrite or Ammonia reading you DO have a pretty serious problem. It either means you are overfeeding and/or your filter is not mature enough yet to deal with the bioload/waste. You do have quite a few fish for a 180l, so you would need a good size filter to deal with the waste from those fish. We can look at the detail more once the initial problem is sorted out. WHAT YOU NEED TO DO RIGHT NOW.... You need to do a 50% water change and keep doing this daily until the ammonia Reading and Nitrite is ZERO. This will dilute the toxins in the water. Make sure you treat the new water with dechlorinater as well. Can you also tell me what sort of filter you are using? Edited by sjbquattro - 30 May 2009 at 10:47pm

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peapod115 Just Browsing AquaTrax User: no Joined: 30 May 2009 Last Active: 16 September 2009 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6 Articles: 0 Member Rating: 1	Posted: 31 May 2009 at 10:27am
	HI Thanks for your repsonce the tank set up is as below Fluval vicenza 180 tank Fluval 205 filter I have fake plants and 3 fairly large fake logs for fish to have cover. 1 large stone formation with an air brick for bubbles. I set up the tank and added Nutrafin + and Cycle as instructed and waited 10 days before adding any fish. Then added 7 fish. 1x rtbs 2 x platies 1x leopard 3x cardinals. All seemed well for 2 weeks water ok fish happy. Then added 4x cardinals 2x ballon mollys 2 clown loach 4 harlequins 1 fighting fish. within 3 days 5x cardinals dead 3 days later clown loaches dead. Between the cardinals loss i did a 1/4 water change and the same after the loaches loss. Water resultes from a Nutrafin Mini master test kit. Ammonia 0 or as near can be Ph 8 ish Nitrite No2 3.3mg/l Nitrate No3 110mg/l I also tested my tap water for nitrates and nitites and that was nearly zero. Feeding times and amounts. Am pinch of Nutrafin flakes Pm pinch of Nutrafin falkes and 1 Nutrafin tablet for bottom feeders. Filter makeup. Has 2 carbon layers and 2 ceramic type layers. Lighting comes on from 5pm till 10pm on auto and there have been no power supply issues so filter has been on all the time Thanks for your time and any advice
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sjbquattro Admin Group AquaTrax User: YES View My Setup Joined: 20 October 2006 Last Active: Today Posts: 4235 Articles: 6 Member Rating: 287	Posted: 31 May 2009 at 5:17pm
	Hi again, good detail there. I would say that although the tank is possibly capable of handing that many fish, you have added too many too soon and it is very likely that the Fluval 205 could not cope with that amount of fish and waste. On that size tank with that many fish I would personally be running a 305 or even a 405 to be honest. If I am 100% honest I would say it is too many fish for that size tank anyway and stress/overcrowding would be adding to the problems, hence why your problems started when you added the extra fish. Your feeding regime seems fine to me, but you just have too many fish in th for that size filter and tank. I would personally remove the carbon media as that is only required to remove medications or clarify problem water. I would switch it for more biological media to boost the waste breakdown powers of the filter. I would be suprised if your tap water is showing zero Nitrates... might be worth testing that again as most tap water will have Nitrates in. I would carry on with 50% daily water changes until your Nitrite levels are zero as Nitrite is highly toxic to fish. Edited by sjbquattro - 31 May 2009 at 5:20pm

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sjbquattro Admin Group AquaTrax User: YES View My Setup Joined: 20 October 2006 Last Active: Today Posts: 4235 Articles: 6 Member Rating: 287	Posted: 31 May 2009 at 5:40pm
	Sorry, I should probably add that, taking in account the fish loses you have had, you probably DO have the right sort of quantity fish in there for now. The bio load will have reduced now due to the unfortunate loses, so keep on with the water changes, beef up the bio media in the filter and hopefully things will settle down in the next few days. If you want to add more fish, wait for a good few weeks and consider adding another filter to run alongside the Fluval 205 to keep up with the bioload.

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manutius Admin Group The Boss AquaTrax User: YES View My Setup Joined: 06 January 2006 Last Active: 03 September 2010 Posts: 16418 Articles: 9 Member Rating: 424	Posted: 01 June 2009 at 4:22pm
	hey there welcome to the forum and sorry for your losses. I think SJB has covered it, definitely too many fish too soon so your filter was unable to cope. The number of bacteria in a filter directly relate to the bioload on the tank so when you add anything living new it affects the balance and the tank goes through a mini cycle, rise in amonia then to nitrite and then nitrate. It sems this is the case for you and that your tank is partway through recovering from this. Do as SJB says and change 50% water now and once levels are good maintain a 25% weekly water change regime. When you choose to add fish its best to add a few inches of fish at a time and reduce the feeding for a few days to a week to allow the tfilter to cope. hope that makes sense and good luck
	15000+ posts and hardly any sense made or spellings correct
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SiameseFighter Groupie AquaTrax User: no Joined: 20 July 2008 Last Active: 14 August 2010 Posts: 1844 Articles: 0 Member Rating: 131	Posted: 01 June 2009 at 7:40pm
	hi there and welcome to the forum. All aspects have been covered and i hope that you get it sorted soon. I have a 180l tank and i remember havingg to sit and watch a tank of water cycle itself and the slowly i added my fish, 3 at a time over a period of 4 mths. It was worth every minute i spent watching and waiting. Good luck.
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jimthefish Online Moderators Plant Forum Moderator AquaTrax User: YES Joined: 19 October 2005 Last Active: Today Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6246 Articles: 10 Member Rating: 965	Posted: 01 June 2009 at 8:22pm
	Welcome to the forum Peapod. SJB and manu have, I think, covered your problem, to much too soon. Don't give up, just take your time. I'd avoid Clown loaches in future. They have the possibilty of growing to around 10" each and prefer to be kept in large shoals of 15+. If you're determined to have these, think tropical pond or converting the local swimming pool!
	Jim B
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manutius Admin Group The Boss AquaTrax User: YES View My Setup Joined: 06 January 2006 Last Active: 03 September 2010 Posts: 16418 Articles: 9 Member Rating: 424	Posted: 01 June 2009 at 8:30pm
	Very good point Jim about the loaches, many people have them in small groups, myself included but I would rather see them in their larger social groups like in the wild
	15000+ posts and hardly any sense made or spellings correct
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peapod115 Just Browsing AquaTrax User: no Joined: 30 May 2009 Last Active: 16 September 2009 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6 Articles: 0 Member Rating: 1	Posted: 02 June 2009 at 8:39pm
	Thanks Guys, i am doing as you have instructed and hope in time all will be well,i will persist and will let you know how i get on.Good advice about the clown's and may not get anymore cos ive noticed they do get HUGE.anyway of to do a water change now. Thanks again
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jimthefish Online Moderators Plant Forum Moderator AquaTrax User: YES Joined: 19 October 2005 Last Active: Today Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6246 Articles: 10 Member Rating: 965	Posted: 02 June 2009 at 9:04pm
	Keep us up to date with how it's going.
	Jim B
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manutius Admin Group The Boss AquaTrax User: YES View My Setup Joined: 06 January 2006 Last Active: 03 September 2010 Posts: 16418 Articles: 9 Member Rating: 424	Posted: 03 June 2009 at 6:42am
	excellent peapod as jim says keep us in the loop
	15000+ posts and hardly any sense made or spellings correct
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peapod115 Just Browsing AquaTrax User: no Joined: 30 May 2009 Last Active: 16 September 2009 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6 Articles: 0 Member Rating: 1	Posted: 13 June 2009 at 1:35pm
	Hi Guys Just to update you on water probs, done as you said and quality now as it should be and fish all fine and happy. Many thanks
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manutius Admin Group The Boss AquaTrax User: YES View My Setup Joined: 06 January 2006 Last Active: 03 September 2010 Posts: 16418 Articles: 9 Member Rating: 424	Posted: 15 June 2009 at 12:49pm
	hoorah hoorah
	15000+ posts and hardly any sense made or spellings correct
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