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laura81
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Quote laura81 Replybullet Topic: Starting afresh. Advice needed!
    Posted: 24 January 2010 at 4:57pm

Hi, I'm new to the forum thing, so bear with me and tell me if I do something wrong!

My tank is my 1st marine, and I bought it from a guy who was moving out of the country. Unfortunately, I inherited a bit of a timebomb! The tank was overstocked with loads of stuff the guy bought because it looked nice... and had some hard-to-keep anemonies, corals etc, so things enevitably started to die. Dispite my best efforts and advice from the local shop, I had an almost complete wipeout.

I have now almost stabilised the tank. All levels are normal apart from nitrate which is still a little high. I have some issues I would really appreciate advice with, as the poor fish shop must be sick of the site of me by now!

- I have some alge still - green hairy stuff on the tank walls and pinky stuff on the sand. I presume this is to do with the nitrate (phos is now normal although was very high at one point.) and that I have no clean up crew at the moment. Will this eventually clear up - I'm doing a weekly 20% water change using RO.

-Re-stocking - when do I start, and what cleanup crew would people recommend for a 125L tank? I'm really nervous about putting anything else in...

-How long will it take to get my nitrate back down to normal, it's been nearly 6 months of weekly water changes, including a huge 50% one as I had to swap tanks when the old one started leaking...

-the SG is low and I can't seem to bring it up. It's 1.020

My tank details are:
125 L, filtered with lots of live rock. It's a Jewul tank and I have filled the internal filter unit with more live rock. It also came with a large external filter which is filled with live rock and helps water flow (Do I really need this too?). I have a skimmer on 12hours a day, T8 lighting, Stocked wth 3 leather corals, 1 mushroom polyp, 1 scarlet hawkfish, 1 common clown.

fish fed sparingly once a day, corals once a week
Any help, advice, ideas much appreciated!
Thank you for reading my essay!!

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Quote jennybugs Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 6:27pm
Welcome to the forum! Smile

Have you got any marine salt and a refractometer?  You'll need to be gradually raising the SG using marine salt in the water changes.  Using plain RO isn't going to raise the salinity at all.

Algae on the glass needs to be physically scraped off.  What powerhead irculation pumps have you in the tank if any?  Algae tends to cling on where the flow is not too strong so maybe your circulation round the tank needs to be addressed.  The red cyano on the sand will need to be syphoned up and should go with good nitrate removers and the extra flow.  A good CUC will also help with eliminating problem algae too.

I wouldn't add any stock to the tank until you have got the SG to 1.024-1.025.  Then start with some CUC like turbo or astrea snails (the latter have pointy shells and need to be kept an eye on...if they fall over they can't right themselves and they die). Dwarf hermits like the redlegged hermit crab are good but it's best to get various spare shells of different shapes and sizes for them to house swap in and out of.

Weekly water changes with RO alone may not get the nitrates down that fast.  You need some form of chemical filtration like Rowaphos or Seachem Seagel/Purigen or such.
You can put chemical filter media in the internal box filter or (better yet) the external filter.  This will help keep on top of your water parameters.

You may want to look at some internal powerheads as I mentioned...Koralia pumps are good or there are Tunze Nanostream pumps which I hear have a better flow angle.  These will help keep the flow of water moving round the live rock inside the tank.
How much live rock do you have in the tank itself?  You need to allow roughly 1kg of live rock per 10 litres of water...so around 12kg would be ideal for your tank.

Any piccies of your tank?

Hope we can help you...there are a fair few slaty seadogs on this forum and maybe together we can get you back on track Cool
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Quote jimthefish Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 6:44pm
Welcome Laura. You seem to have got a bit of a raw deal with your bargain. As Jenny mentioned, flow is important in getting rid of red algae and a couple of stream pumps would't go amiss. Rowaphos and carbon in the external filter will help clean things up too. You could raise the SG by adding salt dissolved in a little water. SG 1.024 which is around what you want is equivalent to about 32grm/lt; yours is about 28grm/lt. Assuming that after displacement you have about 100lt of water you need to add about 400grm of salt. You could do this over a week, adding 80grm a day , Monday to Friday. Keep checking of course! Your skimmer should run 24 hrs for best effect. This will also help reduce nitrates as it removes protien wastes which break down to nitrates and phosphates. If you have the standard two T8 lights that Juwel supply then you won't be able to keep anemones or many corals, as you've found. You'll need to increase the lights by quite a bit to achieve that. Hope this all helps, look forward to hearing more as it goes on.
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Quote laura81 Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2010 at 4:10pm
Thank you so much for your help.
I have a water circulating pump (looks like a hairdryer?) positioned so that it intersects the flow from the internal and external filters, so the circulation is quite good. The corals seem to move quite a lot with it anyway.
I am using Rowaphos in the internal filter as I had a high Phos issue, this keeps the phos level perfect but will it help the nitrates or do I need something else?
It's hard to judge how much rock I have. I would say there is 12kg or more with all the stuff in the filters too but I was thinking about getting some more to add height anyway. I'm not bothered about the time it takes as we are saving to move house so I don't have much spare cash and think it will be less stressful to move with less critters anyway! I will weigh the rock when I move it all as it would be useful to know.
I scrape the front and sides daily, much to the disgust of the hawkfish, who likes sitting on the scraper! But I didn't know I could syphon the stuff off the sand without sucking all the sand up...pretty obvious now as I remember doing it in my tropical tank!
I will get some salt and add it as you suggest, jimthefish, at the moment I have to buy ready made salt RO as my big hairy dog makes it impossible to make up my own at home unless I sieve it first!
I think I am making progress as all my tiny little rock critters are back out and the rocks have a beautiful coat of pink again. My 2 long long tenticle leather corals look beautiful and are chucking out babies, so I think there is light at the end of this tunnel (my other leather is sulking as it fell of it's rock so it's currently being tied back on with elastic bands. Whole other problem though!) I realise my lighting is not sufficient for many corals, but I don't have plans to keep any others at the moment.
I will put a pic on, and resist the temptation to remove all the alge first so you can see what I mean!
Thanks again for your help!
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Quote manutius Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2010 at 5:47pm
Hi there laura, welcome to the forum.  it sounds like from a bad start you are beginning to see the end of it all now.  I too had a similar algae nightmare and it took me a lot of time, water changes, phoshpate remover (seachem seagel) the use of steel wire brushes and the introduction of two urchins.  I look forward to seeing a pic of your tank and sharing the happy times with your tank



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Quote laura81 Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2010 at 8:43pm
My new camera won't connect to the computer, so unable to download pics. Will let you know how I get on!
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Quote manutius Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2010 at 9:15pm
that's a shame, you'll have to use all your power to describe it to us, or buy anew camera lead or something



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Quote Alastair Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2010 at 9:02pm
Late response I know but..
 
Have you checked the SG of the premixed water you're buying?  A lot of LFS will mix water to 1.021 for fish-only systems.  If this is the case that would explain why you're holding stable around 1.020.
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Quote laura81 Replybullet Posted: 18 February 2010 at 12:46pm
Sorry for the delay, been on honeymoon in Cuba! Big smile
I had the same thought when I was away, I'm going to test it Sunday when I'm at work and have the Refractometer.
If I have to make up my own, is there a particular weight of salt I use per litre of water?


Edited by laura81 - 18 February 2010 at 10:15pm
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Quote manutius Replybullet Posted: 19 February 2010 at 11:15am
I think depending on your desired SG its about 310g-450g per 10m litres  I measure for 310 and it gets roughly 1.024, I then add a bit more salt if needed



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Quote laura81 Replybullet Posted: 22 February 2010 at 4:04pm
Thank you for that.
Looks like I will be making my own up, or at least adding more salt to the stuff I buy, it's S.G is only 1.015. That explains it then!
Mine's very gradually increasing and is now 1.021. Getting there.
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Quote jimthefish Replybullet Posted: 22 February 2010 at 8:23pm
35grm/lt is the usual mix. Your refractometer should have two scales, one SG the other as a percentage or grm/lt figure. 32grm/lt=0.32%=SG1.024 approx.
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Quote manutius Replybullet Posted: 22 February 2010 at 9:15pm
aaah glad we got to the bottom of that



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Quote laura81 Replybullet Posted: 27 February 2010 at 5:41pm
Righty, been to see the poor guy in the fish shop again as although my Phos is ok, my nitrate is still sky high even after months and months of water changing. hHe's given me a 2 month 'drastic offensive', as he agrees this is getting stupid!
I have to remove the small bits of live rock from my filter units and just leave the Rowaphos and add a bit of plain filter wool, then do a 50% water change every week, testing as I go of cours. The first change I have to remove all the rock and swoosh them in a bucket to remove any 'clingy' nitrates. I aso have to test my new water before I put it in the tank. His theory is that I'm either adding the nitrate in the new water or it's being produced by the rock in the filter compartment and 'stored' in the tank rock.
As he has all kinds of fishy degrees and qualifications, I'm going to follow it and see where we end up!
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Quote jennybugs Replybullet Posted: 28 February 2010 at 8:23am
Good luck with that! Let us know how you get on.
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Quote jimthefish Replybullet Posted: 28 February 2010 at 10:47am
All sorts of fishy degrees? Reminds me of child care social workers who have no children somehow. I may be doing the guy a great dis-service however, hopefully he'll get you sorted. Look forward to a progress report. Are you now making your own? If so are you using RO water? Tap water could be a source of nitrates.
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Quote laura81 Replybullet Posted: 07 March 2010 at 1:20pm
I know just the sort you mean...  I've done a bit of research on the shop though and talked to the staff. They all have loads of experience and the place has won loads of awards. Plus it's always rammed in there so hopefully it's as good as it's reputation.
Yes, I'm making up my own water with RO bought  (will get my own unit if this all works and I don't end up chucking the whole thing out the window...). Having to sieve it through a net as I add it to the tank to get rid of the dog hair even though I hoover everywhere before starting. Oh well.
Finishd my mammoth change/ spring clean. Went well I think, I found it hard to get the salt mix right and ended up with the SG a bit high so I had to take some out and top up with plain but I got it right eventually.

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Quote manutius Replybullet Posted: 09 March 2010 at 3:08pm
sounds like you are getting grips with things.  I had to laugh at the line about the dog hair, I have to prevent a toddler putting their hands in the bucket



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