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big-mike
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Quote big-mike Replybullet Topic: complete newbie to fish
    Posted: 07 June 2010 at 9:48pm

Hi im completely new to keeping fish and as ive just bought my 1 st aquarium i have a list of questions i was hoping people could help me with as uve all been very helpful upto yet Smile ... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. CTRL+F5 reloads the whole page.

really sorry if these questions seem dumb lol Confused ... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. CTRL+F5 reloads the whole page.
 
ive started the cycle on my tank but other than the gravel and a ornament varse there is nothing else in there so should i put my plants in now or wait till its cycled??
 
ive been told putting your hands into the water is a big no no but how do i get my plants/air pipe etc.. into the gravel without putting my hands in??
 
im looking to pick up an air pump to add the bubbles to the tank but im confused what to buy, some give u tank size in inchs but not as a diamentions some give u litre's per hour etc...?
 
many thanks for any help and again sorry for the daft questions Confused ... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. CTRL+F5 reloads the whole page.
 
  mike 
 
 
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Quote daniogirl Replybullet Posted: 08 June 2010 at 7:09am
Hi big mike! Your questions aren't dumb, I was going to ask some of this myself, (you should check out some of the questions i've been asking!)
I'm just setting up my second tank and want live plants and i'm not sure when to add them either.  One of the knowledgeable folk will be on soon i'm sure, but I think it's ok to put your hands in (how else would you do it!? Confused)  There was a thread a while back about me not liking the fish having a little nibble on my arm! and the others suggested I use some sort of fishkeepinf gloves, but that was for my benefit rather than the fish tanks.  You just need to be sure you don't have any chemicals on your hands (no strongly scented hand creams!) but seeing as your called bigmike I don't envisage that being an issue! lol.  But yea, no chemicals on your hands at all and think it should be ok.  As I said I'm also pretty new, so wait to see what the others say, just thought i'd have a try at putting my penneth worth in!
I used to do a bit of housework, now I saunter around pet shops with a note pad!
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Quote jennybugs Replybullet Posted: 08 June 2010 at 8:05am
DG is right. Clean hands fir tank entry. Just don't overdo it when fish are in as it stresses them out.
Save your plant adding until the tanks cycled as they'll suffer with a cycle big time.

You don't need airbubbles in the tank Mike. Good surface movement is all that's required so if you have a filter you can angle the outlet of then point that to the surface for agitation.

Remember there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers
Slowly, slowly, happy tanky! :D
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Quote big-mike Replybullet Posted: 08 June 2010 at 9:31am
cheers daniogirl and your right im not 1 for hand creams lol
 
thanks jenny for your help again, will leave getting the plants for a bit then. ive turned my pump outlet so its agitating the surface but should i want to add an air pump maybe just for asthetical reasons any advice on what to buy??
 
so ive added the dose of tap safe and am adding the doses of nutrafin cycle as per instructions should i be adding anything else ie pure amonia etc...??
 
thanks again
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Quote jennybugs Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2010 at 7:18am
Mike don't rely on nutrafin cycle to prep the tank. Cycle it properly fishless. Here's an example of how to use ammonia to cycle the tank...

Do NOT sniff your bottle of ammonia to see what it smells like! It's the main ingredient of smelling salts and will NOT smell nice!***

Step 1: Add pure source of ammonia up to a reading of 5ppm

Step 2: Measure Nitrite, Ammonia and Nitrate each day, then top up the ammonia readings to 5ppm

Repeat Step 2 until Nitrite readings spike above 5ppm.

Step 3: Measure Nitrite, Ammonia and Nitrate each day, then top up the ammonia readings to between 2-3ppm

Repeat Step 3 until both Nitrite and Ammonia readings are dropping to 0ppm each day.

Step 4: Continue to top up the ammonia reading to between 2-3ppm daily, but now measure Nitrite, Ammonia and Nitrate 12 hours after ammonia added.

Repeat Step 4 until both Nitrite and Ammonia readings are dropping to 0ppm 12 hours after ammonia added.

The cycle is now complete, keep topping up ammonia each day until the day before you are ready to get your fish. On the day you are getting your fish do not add any ammonia, instead do some large water changes to get your Nitrate readings down to acceptable levels i.e. <40ppm.

When adding ammonia for the first time add about half what you think is required to raise the reading to 5ppm, then wait an hour and take a reading. You can then easily work how much the ammonia reading is raised for each ml/drop of ammonia added. You then know what to add to raise the ammonia reading to the initial 5ppm and then the required level each day after.

Make sure you **ONLY** use a pure source of ammonia, the only products I know of that are pure are Jeyes Kleen Off Ammonia (I got this from Robert Dyers) and Boots Household Ammonia. If you cannot get hold of one of those types then check the ingredients which should just be Ammonium Hydroxide, probably something like 9%. If there is no list of ingredients shake the bottle and if there is no foam or bubbling then you should be good to go.

The best times to “seed” the tank are at Step 1 and then again when Nitrite readings start showing up. I only seeded my tank at Step 1 and it took just under 3 weeks, if you do not seed the tank it will probably take a bit longer.

When you do add fish as you have been adding 2-3ppm of ammonia each day you can add quite a lot of stock, I would say 75% of full stocking. In theory 75% of your stock will create less than 2-3ppm of ammonia each day so you will have plenty of bacteria to cope with it.

Do not do any water changes during the fishless cycle or rinse out filter media. After the cycle try to leave your filter media alone for as long as you can i.e. until flow is affected.
Slowly, slowly, happy tanky! :D
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Quote jenga Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2010 at 9:43am
greetings peeps....nice answer jenny, that makes it as clear as i hope my tank to be..
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Quote big-mike Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2010 at 10:04am
wow thats alot to take in lol like being back at school, just ordered these for testing the water http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160315240698&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
ive just ordered a 500ml bottle of  Jeyes Kleen Off Ammonia so will follow your instructions and let u know how i get on Smile


Edited by big-mike - 09 June 2010 at 10:14am
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Quote brixpaul Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2010 at 2:17pm
absolute brilliant explanation of the cycle process by jenny there mike, follow that and u cant go wrongClap that test kit aint gonna be no good i dont think mike, first off everything i've read say strip tests ar inaccurate, so most people use liquid tests. plus with only 25 tests you'll be buying another one pretty quick, and it dont look like it even has an amonia test in it, which is essential when cycling. the API master test kit does 800 tests altogether and will see u through the cycle and beyond.
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Quote big-mike Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2010 at 3:37pm
ive only just noticed it doesnt actually test for amonia "doh" .............. right thats that cancelled lol them api kits are pricey does it have to be api paul or will any master water test kit do what i need??
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Quote brixpaul Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2010 at 5:24pm
anyone will do mate, as long as they do what u wantThumbs Up 
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Quote big-mike Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2010 at 5:55pm

ok well ive ordered the api freshwater master test kit, the 1 with loads of different bottles lol please tel me ive got the right 1 this time?

my poor old credit card is developing burn marks Confused lol but i dont care i cant wait to go get a nice black shark next month Approve
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Quote jimthefish Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2010 at 7:38pm
I've rated Jenny's answer on fishless cycling but I would disagree with the statement about plants. I add them as I'm filling the tank! Plants will actually aid the cycle process as they have their own bacterial population on them and use ammonia as food.
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Quote big-mike Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2010 at 7:53pm
so if im understanding this right turning the amonia into nitrate (good bacteria) is the key and the faster this happens the earlier fish will be happy and safe in the water??
 
sorry jenny maybe ive missed somthing but what does it meen to "seed" the tank??
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Quote big-mike Replybullet Posted: 10 June 2010 at 11:13am
is there a rough intial amount of amonia u should put in as i dont want to add to much??
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Quote brixpaul Replybullet Posted: 10 June 2010 at 2:47pm
u have to add enough to get a test reading of 5ppm, so add some then test, if not enough then add some more until u get it right. u cant put too much in at the moment, if u get a higher reading than 5ppm then do a waterchange to get it down then go from there. 
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Quote jennybugs Replybullet Posted: 10 June 2010 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by big-mike

so if im understanding this right turning the amonia into nitrate (good bacteria) is the key and the faster this happens the earlier fish will be happy and safe in the water??
 
sorry jenny maybe ive missed somthing but what does it meen to "seed" the tank??


The cycle will take as long as it takes so speed is not the issue here.  'Seeding' a tank means adding a good supply of healthy bacteria - for example from a loaded (we would call it dirty) filter sponge by giving it a good squish into the water, or putting the entire sponge into the new filter to 'seed' the other sponge with good bacteria, or adding some mature gravel from another tank.  The filter sponge idea is better as you want that gunge that collects in the sponge itself.  This is what the bacteria live on Smile
Slowly, slowly, happy tanky! :D
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Quote big-mike Replybullet Posted: 10 June 2010 at 4:05pm
as my tank and filter/gravel are second hand and i read that cleaning the filter sponge with tap water wasnt a good idea i decided to leave alone and just add the water would this have helped "seed" the tank??

Edited by big-mike - 10 June 2010 at 4:10pm
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Quote brixpaul Replybullet Posted: 10 June 2010 at 4:42pm
was the the sponges still wet/damp when u got the tank? if they were it would depend how long the filter had been turned off for before u turned it back on. the easiest way will be to test your water when u get the test kit with the filter running, u might get luckyBig smile 
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Quote big-mike Replybullet Posted: 10 June 2010 at 4:46pm

I would say they were slightly damp paul??

well my api test kit should be here tomorrow and my amonia and thermometer arrived this morning so i can make a start tomorrow on testing the water, does it matter that its been running since satday morning??
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Quote brixpaul Replybullet Posted: 10 June 2010 at 5:03pm
wouldn't of thought so mate, i dont think there would be any good bacteria left though. u never know though, test it tomorrow and post your results, then we can help u with the cycle from thereSmile patience will be your motto over the next few weeksLOL 
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